Tag Archive for 'neogeography'

Nestoria Interview – Muki Haklay – University College London

This month for our Nestoria Interview we chat with Muki Haklay a Senior Lecturer at University College London’s Department of Civil, Environmental and Geomatic Engineering. A long time participant in, follower and commentator on the ‘neogeography’ trend, Muki recently published about OpenStreetMap, and its explosive growth. He is a fellow of the Royal Geographic Society and a member of the Association for Geographical Information (AGI).

Muki, many thanks for speaking with us

1. Why is that OSM and other neogeography projects have grown so rapidly in the past few years?
I think that around 2005 there was a fundamental shift in some underlying technologies and social trends that allowed it. Of the wider driving forces, I think that there are 5 significant ones: GPS availability, Web standards, Broadband, Data storage and a new paradigm in programming APIs.

Quickly explaining what I mean:

1st May 2000 should be the birthday of Neogeography, because that was the day when President Clinton removed the selective availability of GPS signal so we can capture locations easily and with good accuracy. Without this decision, we wouldn’t have the huge explosion in location data.

The second thing is web standards. I still remember when I first read on Dave Winer’s blog (although it wasn’t yet called that) about the release of SOAP, and the whole development of XML and other standards. Without the evolution of XML,SOAP and the gradual adaption of browsers that are capable of running AJAX which took some years, we wouldn’t be able to run geographical applications which usually require more processing than an email application.

The third is broadband access – as Tom Friedman notes in ‘The World is Flat’ – because of the Dot.Com crash and the infrastructure that companies like Global Crossing and WorldCom created at the end of the 90s, we now got cheap and fast broadband across the world. Think about piping lots of tiles to the user’s browser and you realise that you can’t do it over a dialup.

The fourth point is data storage. We tend to forget that as late as 2000, the cost of gigabyte storage was about $10, which again limits the ability to tile the world. By 2005, it was 50c.

Finally, with all these things, a new paradigm of light APIs emerged. The learning curve of Google API is much shorter than, say, understanding how to program a typical GIS mapping sever, such as ArcIMS or MapServer.

Take all these together, and you have an explanation of why Neogeography happened in 2005 and not 1995. It’s interesting to notice how, as in many other aspects of geographical computations, GIS and Geography is more complex/voluminous/computationally intensive so it lags behind other applications by about 10-15 years. You can show similar lags in the development of geographic technologies in previous generations of computing platforms.

2. What are the implications for the professional GIS community?
I’ve noted on my blog the implications of all these are far reaching. For too many employers, the justification in employing GIS professionals is that the software used to create maps is very complex, so having specialists who produce maps is justified. But if it is possible to create maps with a simple API instead of buying an expensive and difficult to maintain Internet mapping server software, or if it is enough to analyse the data by creating a point map on Google Earth – then why keep the expensive professional?

This is a good thing in the long run. GIS analysis and clever use of data and analysis techniques are the real benefits of using a professional GIS package, and these are things that an API can’t handle (for now) so GIS professionals should move up the chain and focus on services where their geographic knowledge really adds value. It’s much more exciting and interesting to use GIS to do proper analysis and not just to produce maps…

3. You recently posted about a comprehensive evaluation of comprehensiveness of OSM geodata versus professionally gathered data. What did you learn?
The report is quite extensive and covers lots of aspects of the OSM data, so it’s worth focusing on some highlights.

One of the most striking aspects is that OSM provides a different type of data in terms of accuracy – and that for many applications this is absolutely fine. Not everyone need very accurate data – so OSM teach us what is good enough in geographic information.

In terms of quality, just as in the case of open source code, we need to think about the importance of Raymond statement ‘Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow’ For mapping, this should be translated as the number of contributors that worked on an area and therefore removed ‘bugs’ from it. And this is an aspect that the OSM crowd need to figure out and that will improve quality. Too many places are covered by a single person.

I’ve also understood the completeness is more important than high accuracy – as you think about fitness for purpose, you understand that once OSM will get to 75-80% coverage of a place, the data will be very valuable and very usable.

One of the motivation for another part of the analysis was a matter-of-fact comment from Steve Coast (ed: see past Nestoria Interview with Steve Coast) about mapping less attractive locations (council estates) and I wanted to check if this tally with government measures of deprivation. Indeed, more deprived areas are far less mapped then wealthy areas. For me, that’s one of the overlooked aspects of Neogeography – it doesn’t really happen in digitally excluded place. Even in places such as India where Google do their Map Maker activities, they do it with students, who are naturally coming from a wealthier background and not with socially excluded people…

4. What effects will crowd sourced geodata have for the the web community in general and start ups, like Nestoria, in particular?
Well, because we’re just three years since it really took off, we need to wait and see which sources are becoming stable and reliable.

For example, as we get more geotagged images, and with tools like photosynth and the developments in image recognition, I think that we will see lots of applications that use visual imagery to extract geographic information – think of getting data on all the shops in an area by looking at their signs.

As I’ve noted, we also need to wait until some places will have a robust coverage – once OSM got proper coverage of a major city such as London I’m sure that we will see exciting applications from CloudMade or similar ventures that build on it. It’ll enable many more start-ups in the area of geographic information. For example, UCL and London 21 Sustainability Network are currently setting up a community mapping social enterprise (that’s like a start-up, but all profits go for social goals). It’s called ‘Mapping for Change’ and it will focus on making places more sustainable. Getting the data is a major issue for us. Using OSM as our source of geographic information will enable us to spend our effort and money on engaging communities, not on buying data. I’m sure that there will be many more examples.

Thanks Muki. We recommend anyone interested in tracking Muki’s work learning from his experience subscribe to his blog. We look forward to watching OpenStreetMap’s continued growth in coverage and comprehensiveness, and finding ways for Nestoria to work together with the academic community. Readers may be interested in our past cooperations with UCL).

past Nestoria interviews: Brad Inman, Simon Baker, and Tim Youngman.

Nestoria Interview – Gregory Marler – Living with Dragons

Recently I had the chance to speak at the UK Geography industry’s annual conference – AGI 2007. The final event of the conference was a discussion about ‘neogeography’ versus traditional geography (christened ‘paeleogeography’ by former Nestora interviewee Ed Parsons at the event). There was much debate about what the term neogeography means and whether neogeography is at odds with or complementary to paleogeography. There was however no disputing that neogeography has caught the industry’s attention.

One example of neogeography in action is Gregory Marler’s recently begun Living with Dragons project. Gregory will spend the next few years living without commercial maps! We are delighted to announce Nestoria will be sponsoring Living with Dragons for the next few months to see how Gregory’s experiment turns out.

Gregory created his first website at the age of 12. After completing college he went to work on online production at the New Statesman. While there Gregory worked on the new website launch and it’s many new blogs. After a couple of years, he decided it was time to experience university life before he got to old. This month Gregory moved to Durham to start a degree in Computer Science. He forgot to pack some maps, and has yet to see his first dragon.

To kick off the partnership, we’ve invited Gregory to be this month’s Nestoria interviewee.

1. Explain the idea behind the ‘Living with Dragons’ project.

Well the whole story of how it began is on the blog, but it can be cut down to something quite short. I made the decision to move to Durham, after only having spent 2 days there. In spring I looked on the OpenStreetMap, a non-commercial mapping project and Durham was very white/blank, it almost said “here be dragons”. So as I was into this amateur mapping stuff, and liking adventure, I decided I would go out and map it without knowing where I was going. I moved here in October and set up the website to keep me knowing my purpose while readers of the blog can make sure I don’t cheat.

2. What sorts of response have you got?

Well it’s only been a week since I started but I’ve brought it up in a lot of conversations. A bit risky seeing as these are new friends I’m trying to make and everyone at home thinks I’m obsessed and a geek going to mapping conventions. Everyone here has been so interested that no conversation has gone the same way. I’ve discovered that archaeology students have a big interest in the map, the computer society would even like me to do a talk. On the business side it is looking like several organisations want to get onboard, such as the wonderful support from Nestoria.

3. What are your thoughts on the developments in the online geography sector (maps, etc) in the last 18 months?

Well I haven’t been following the whole sector closely but I’ve had an eye on OpenStreetMap related activity for some time. OSM seemed to flourish in the last year with more people suddenly being aware of the community mapping project and it becoming easier and easier to join in. Unfortunately I couldn’t make it to the conference but listening to the podcasts we don’t just have to be mapping now. Take a break and play with the maps, make some art, program scripts that play with the data.

How the user holds and controls the map has moved online sites to use slippy maps and even globes. Now we, the users, want to be overlaying stuff on maps: photos, lines and routes, hotels, even disaster areas in foreign countries.

4. What are the challenges you think a vertical search engine for property like Nestoria faces?

I think the challenge that applies to many online services is to maintain a good user interface that is simple. For a vertical search engine you want to be adding more search options. With the aim of allowing the user to tell you exactly what they want to find, or even which options they’re not bothered but would prefer. This is great but too many options and suddenly the balance will flip and they’d rather search vague terms in a general web search or phoning several local estate agents.

Thanks Gregory, we’ll work hard to keep it simple. Best of luck with the mapping. For those readers interested in following Gregory’s progress please subscribe to Living with Dragons.

past Nestoria interviews: Artem Pavlenko, Harvey Edgecombe, Marc Wick.